Another warm welcome to the Virtual Lighting Design Community Podcast. Today's episode is a post-presentation interview with Kunal Shah of SPK Valo, based in India. Kunal previously shared a presentation on the platform titled the Journey of Creating Perceptual Transformation and the Process Behind it. Kunal talked about the important role of architectural storytelling in lighting design, as well as visual communication and much more. A great presentation and well worth a listen In this post-presentation Q&A session. Co-founder of the virtual lighting design community, ingmar Klassen joins the conversation. Before we head into today's episode, a quick thank you to our bespoke supporters Aero Hospitality Lighting, creative Lighting Asia, erco, the Signify Lighting Academy and Philix Lighting. Do also check out our online community, vldcommunity. Now let's jump into the post-presentation conversation with Kunal Shah and Ingmar Klassen. Enjoy, hi, kunal, fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing those insights with us.

I think storytelling was a big one. Communication the conceptual presentation of how you intend to really demonstrate to the client what you want to achieve and actually involve them in that process. You mentioned the filters and having that inclusive decision-making with all the stakeholders. I think it was a really important thing, as you mentioned several times during the presentation about young and up and coming lighting designers being aware of that and being able to make use of that as a tool and as such, I think it really ties into the business of lighting design.

I'm just curious as well from that point of view, from when you started early on, even from your days at LuxLab in the Netherlands and moving into your own practice at Hyderabad. So I want to hear a bit more about your journey and how you actually decided to use that as a tool for that visual storytelling, because we also use that layers of light a lot in our practice and it's been a game changer really in communication. So I relate directly to what you're showing here in the presentation, but I'd love to hear from you also that journey from you also early on to your own practice, and did you notice any differences between maybe a Western or European way of doing things versus you know you mentioned in India, on the subcontinent?

Well, absolutely, it was a culture shock in India on the subcontinent. Oh, absolutely, it was a culture shock. So I mean, see, the best part about it is I understand my country well, I understand where they come from, so, and I understand the requirements and I have never debated the requirements. There is always a debate when a western lighting designer is doing his scheme in the subcontinent, they always say, oh, there is too much light. But our people are different compared to someone from west, you know, so we are programmed to being in more light.

So, we are tropical beings. I'm sure you'll be able to relate to this better because you've been living in Singapore and you have this exposure towards the West.

the rest so see. Initially for me it was a shock because the sensibilities that I had developed during my education and then that brief stint at LuxLab, those sensibilities were still not appreciated or the clients were not so sensitive enough. Today, probably, I understand that this knowledge sharing has to be done systematically and probably not push them towards a certain solution. I think controls has helped me a lot, Himar, in that, because it helps me creating those layers of light which I feel is not required, or those brightness levels which I feel is not required. But from the client perspective it is required.

And we face this challenge day in and day out, and not just in residential context but also in hospitality context because in hospitality also uh, I have so many of my clients telling that the rooms are not well lit, which from our perspective, from a professional lighting design perspective, is more than sufficient.

So, um, there's your cultural filter as well, isn't? It?

Absolutely, absolutely. So see, when you understand that, you know what a client requires, when you know their filters, and I think you can give a lot better solution because you understand them. It's just understanding people, you know, yeah. So yeah, coming to the pictorial aspect or the layered approach has helped us quite a bit, because what was happening was people, what I had seen generally in the market. When I come in, this is 2011, I'm talking about yeah.

There were a lot of these vendors who used to take a dialects calculation to the client and they say, oh, you have 400 lux here, you have 200 lux here, and what is 100 lux? Neither the vendor could talk about nor the client could talk about.

You know what is 100 lux end of the day, talk about, nor the client would talk about. You know what is 100 lakhs end of day. So this made me realize that it is important that, pictorially, a person should understand what kind of space he's going to get. So initially in my career I used to have a lot of time. I used to take people to spaces which I felt were well lit. Yeah, I used to take them to lounges.

I used to take people to spaces which I felt were well-lit.

I used to take them to lounges, I used to take them to fine dining to tell them, you know and luckily for me, the clients had time, I had time, we could develop that and over a period, what we have done is from our projects, we've developed a lot of references which we can talk to them about and, having spent so much time in the subcontinent, I have a decent amount of projects where I can tell them that you know, this is what you're going to achieve and this is what we are referring to. Certain projects for the demo center for was really a game changer for lighting design market in my city. I feel I find clients coming to me and talking about oh, where's the furniture accent? Where is the art accent?

So you can show in that layer of light, they understand where it's coming from and how it's achieved, right yeah?

And that's so exciting because it's it's it's a blessing to work with a client who is aware of these layers, you know so. So I think from I had this reservations when I was consulting this company. Hey, I'm creating a competitor for myself, but I feel I have created an ecosystem where I have people who understand better, and people who understand that they cannot do it will certainly use our services. So I think, if I talk about it, I think I've created an ecosystem where people will appreciate thoughtfully lit spaces, because I mean, especially if you see India, there is such an explosion of need of curated spaces because India is now getting to use spaces which are curated. It was never that, you know, and it's a very, very big way. So I think it's the right time for people to understand this vocabulary of light as well.

Yeah, and that actually brings me to another thing that you mentioned during your presentation about client expectations. It actually all ties in really nicely the communication part, the managing the expectations. I did say client expectations, but you also talked about the lines of what the contractors are doing and what the consultants are doing. Sometimes it's a bit blurry. You also mentioned that the layers of light doesn't necessarily have to be a super accurate reflection of the exact solution. I think you said. And that sort of brings me to the question of how important is it to accurately be able to portray the what you're trying to achieve to the client? Because, as you know, um, we can make really beautiful renders, uh, to the point where you know you might wonder how are we going to achieve that in reality? And so when you know when the client comes to start they, they sort of want to, I guess. See, oh, this is what I expected because this is what I was shown. So what are your thoughts on that in terms of, like, accurately being able to show that?

So that is one thing that we have been actively working on, Ingmar that we clearly tell the client and if you see our presentation also, they are not photorealistic. They are communicating the layers clearly, but they are not photorealistic. So this is something that I make it make sure that the client is getting that.

This is an artistic render of what I want to achieve yeah but this is not the real image and I push my clients not to, because my clients will be architects as well, and I push them not to do a photorealistic render, because then the whole process of being able to improvise on what you were thinking is completely lost. So, coming to the point that you were mentioning that, how important is it to have the accuracy in terms of the layers you wanted to achieve? So I feel it depends on the project and the client. How are you reading their filters, well or not? Because there are are. See, I have clients who are upgrading from a residence which had only tube lights yeah so you understand, they're living in spaces which do not have shadow, which is flatly lit.

So for them, coming and living into a space which has accents, which has contrast, is something a a huge leap for them. And on that, see what happens, uh, is the materials being used by interior architects also, um see, hyderabad is known for these huge villas, and for an interior architect to show variation, they end up using a lot of different materials in the space. And spaces which are the floor is dark, the ceiling is dark. They want to create a hospitality experience there, but is the client ready to accept it?

It's something you know, know another story, isn't it? I mean, you showed some amazing, um images of projects that you've done, um, you know, uh, of the bar area and what do you call it like underneath the bar and all the different materials on the ceiling and all the intricate details. I guess on a big scale project like that, you know you talked a bit about working out the details and some of these details are quite complex, as you mentioned. It also helps in terms of value engineering, because you would have probably encountered that a lot as well with you know, budgets being quite restrictive on certain projects. I guess from a client perspective, if they understand what layer of light is producing which mood or ambience or effect do you find that really helps in terms of what they want to cut out? Absolutely.

Absolutely.

I think, hospitality that way is. You know, when they see value in what we are proposing, then they are okay to spend a little on it. But I'll tell you, the F&B projects in India are shoestring budget, so probably less than shoestring budget, less than shoe strength budget. But yes, the clients are better aware of what you want to create and they will help you getting that solution. They will not want to compromise on the effect, but they would certainly want to compromise on the kind of fixture they want to buy. But see in this also as an independent practice I have seen that.

Know if you're going to push a F&B space to buy premium products, it certainly doesn't make sense because the shelf life of a F&B space is not even three years. So I mean it's very important to understand the economics behind it also. So I think, as someone who is from the city, who understands how their businesses work, who is not coming from an ecosystem where the economics is completely different, I believe that my clients are happy because I understand their businesses better.

I understand what they're doing are happy because I understand their business is better. I understand what they are doing. My suppliers are happy because they know that I know what they can supply in a certain time. I think all of this young designers have to really be aware of into which ecosystem they are working in. So I would I mean see the whole idea of getting into VLDC was. I wanted to share what I have gone through in this 12 years because it's very important to understand the ecosystem we are working in, correct. I think if you're coming from a different ecosystem and catering to a very different ecosystem, you will certainly see that friction.

Yeah absolutely, and I think.

On that note, I think being able to share that knowledge is a really great thing to be able to do. We have a lot of young and upcoming designers. Some are already in a practice, some are coming fresh out of KTH and Visma and places like that, so it's nice to be able to do that. Do you have you know now, I guess, if we round up everything that we've talked about and also what you've so eloquently put in your presentation, what would be maybe some final words of advice that you would give to to young people who are looking at um, at the lighting design profession?

um, I think what I would like to tell youngsters is um, a lighting design is a very, very exciting profession because of the variables that we deal with. We are dealing with science, we are dealing with art, we are dealing with people. So I think it's a very, very exciting profession because you are doing something new each day. No day is a bowling day. At the same time, understanding the ecosystem, understanding the people, is extremely important, I feel. End of the day, it's about people. If you're able to connect, if you're able to understand, if you're able to strike the dialogue, well then I think it will be fun to work. Of course, being able to charge the right fee, being able to sustain the office all that is a different topic altogether.

But we're getting into good times.

Absolutely, Kunal. Thank you so much. I loved how you brought up some of these really key points in, I guess, the journey and the business of logic design. I also love how you made it clear about you know reading people's filters and how to cater to those different expectations coming out of that. But that's been a great presentation and also thanks for sharing with us. Thank you so much. It was a pleasure. You've gained some insight or inspiration that you can take away or perhaps apply. If you enjoyed this episode, it is always appreciated if you could take a moment to share the podcast with your peers and friends or leave a review on your favorite podcast app. Consider subscribing to the podcast and our YouTube channel to stay up to date with our latest content. Do check out our online platform as well at vldcommunity If you would like more. Why not go back and listen to some of our previous episodes and hear more from our thought leaders? Thanks for listening and we will be back with more great presentations or interviews very soon. Until next time.