Sometimes we are making those mistakes just because we don't know, and that's where it's you know. At the same time, I know the world works around the economics, but this kind of an initiative helps bridge that gap, Because I remember I wanted to do lighting design in 2002. I couldn't afford it and I decided not to do so because it was too expensive for me at that time. I've learned on job. This kind of forums bring in a lot more talent into learning curve education makes a lot of difference.

you know, the education is like in India, at least right when I tell my client like I need a lighting person, so why do you need to have a lighting consultant? Just buy lights and hire a vendor and he will put lights on. No, I need a lighting consultant, he will create an ambience. I need a lighting consultant who will suggest the right kind of product, the right kind of ambience.

Welcome back to the Virtual Lighting Design Community Podcast, a global platform that empowers, inspires, educates and connects the lighting design community. This podcast is brought to you by our premium supporters Aero Hospitality Lighting, creative Lighting Asia, erco, the Signify Lighting Academy and Philix Lighting. In this special episode, we take you to the heart of the Light and Intelligent Building Middle East event in Dubai, where the virtual lighting design community had its own stand just near the ThinkLight arena. At this prestigious event, we had the pleasure of hosting thought leaders and high-profile individuals from the lighting industry alongside our esteemed community members. During this episode, martin Klassen, one of the co-founders of the virtual lighting design community, sat down with Kanwal Tharaja and Harmeet Singh.

As part of the engaging conversations at the event, kanwal Tharaja, a principal architect, brought over 28 years of experience in architecture, design and services planning to the table. On the other hand, harmeet Singh, a seasoned lighting professional, shared insights from his career, which includes directing more than 200 projects contributing to lighting master planning and spearheading the revitalization of significant landmarks. For Harmeet, tapping into educational resources and event as a budding lighting designer was key to bridging the gap in his knowledge. In 2002, he wanted to pursue lighting design but couldn't afford the education Forums, like Light Middle East, brought in a lot more talent into the learning curve and helped avoid those pitfalls. Kanwal highlighted that, as a lighting designer, one of his prime tasks was education the need to educate his clients.

For anyone wanting a visual experience, please do check out our YouTube channel, where you will find the video version of this episode, as well as many other great interviews and presentations by our industry thought leaders. Our YouTube handle is at vldcommunity and, of course, it wouldn't be complete without mentioning our online platform, where the magic happens. Join us and your fellow lighting enthusiasts, where you can gain access to the complete array of presentations, interviews, stories, ongoing conversations, a host of resources and much more. So please do check that out and explore the community. Now on with the show. Enjoy Intro music.

My name is Martin Klaassen and welcome to the virtual lighting design community. We are currently at Light Middle East in Dubai 2024. And I have the pleasure to interview a famous architect and a famous lighting designer from India. I won't try to pronounce your name, so I will let you introduce yourself. You as an architect and lighting designer. Please introduce yourself and tell me a little bit about what it is you do, who you are. Maybe some of your projects to get a bit an idea of yeah, and lucky to be here.

I am common Thursday architect. I came from India and our practice name is a conversation architects and we are in practice from last 30 years and luckily we are in practice for the last 30 years and luckily we are working with most prestigious clients in India and working with different many projects, like from all fields of architecture, from commercial, residential and all institutional projects and all. So that way we are blessed and we have multi kind of projects and happy with the kind of consultant we are blessed and we have multi kind of projects and happy with the kind of concerns we are working with.

What sort of projects like for hospitality or corporate.

Yeah, we are lucky, as I said, like we are lucky to have different kind of projects. We are doing residential multi-story projects. Right now we are doing 55 story tall building in Delhi it's becoming one of the first buildings in Delhi which is the tallest building, which has the luxury towers with the kind of service apartments. So that's the reason I thought I should visit Dubai To get more kind of experience and exposure of how to deal with the tall story buildings and all.

So you obviously appreciate lighting design, and that's why you? Have a lighting designer also here. That's the reason.

Harmeet is kind of a lighting consultant for us, working with us, so he told me I should visit this place and experience of lighting is totally different kind of a thing, because in India the lighting plays a major role. Any kind of a building without lighting is kind of a dark hole.

major role, yeah, any kind of a building without lighting is a kind of a dark hole. So all of my projects are like kind of all the live up in the evening and all they look beautiful in the evening. That's only because the lighting consultants and this show and light middle is another wonderful second time coming here, okay, and I'm so impressed with the kind of improvement for the last year and good to be here, and I just passed on to Harmeet.

Yeah, Harmeet Tell me a little bit about. So I'm Harmeet Singh, from India and a lighting designer. A practice will be 20 next year, 20 years old. Practice Done, almost about 500 projects from small to big, from airports like Hyderabad airport, goa airport and doing Delhi airport master planning for the AeroCity very diverse projects. Hospitality is where we started, as all of us we did as lighting designers and then graduated to now.

These days I'm very extensively working into the corporates which is doing lighting design for Google, microsoft, apple, as well as Morgan Stanley's, goldman Sachs and larger spaces. We're getting more and more close to human beings and more interactive, rather than just as I say, I was designing for lighting in spaces where you would spend about two hours restaurants or hotels, or three hours at the stretch. Now I'm designing for spaces where people are sitting for 12 hours, 14 hours, apart from the residences. So I think that's a big change from and also brings in a lot of consciousness onto how to do that. Also brings in a lot of consciousness onto how to do that, because now from two hours to 12 hours of interaction with human beings, of the environment, what we've built and I have been working with Mr Kavil Thareja and a lot of projects, where infra project, which we are with him on it, enjoying ourselves and loving it, what we do.

It's a really great point, because it's not often that we see architects and lighting designers travel together to get our intelligence. I guess what you're doing here to get the latest, because you're obviously based in India, but this is where a lot of things are happening, so you get new technologies. So I love the idea that both of you travel together because we need each other in lighting and in architecture, so it's great. Maybe can you, and then, after I, pass it on to our architects. But what? What is your, in your opinion, the important aspect of lighting, design and architecture? Why is it that we need each other?

so I, first of all, I I come from a very old school Light for architecture, not architecture for light, although these days the world is moving very different.

You may think differently about it.

Yes, yes, of course. So the way it is the architecture. We contribute to what has been built and try and bring it to the level, be it as an identity at night or that matter, how comfortable a human being is inside, in the form of it, how while using it. That's the, that's the way, but I can vouch for it. Without having a great architect partner to move towards lighting as a design, we wouldn't have been able to deliver anything onto it, because sometimes boundaries are very blurred between, especially, lighting design and architecture. What is happening is we need to get into the skin, we need to get into it, and unless uh architect as supportive as uh, mr thareja comes in and says okay, I'm willing to change this for you, I am willing to extend myself to do this, I'm willing to, it won't happen. It's, it's, that's.

That's what I've been blessed other way around that uh got a chance to work with these many, but let's see from the architect.

What do you think? How important is lighting for you?

Yeah, it is a kind of a collaborative kind of a system and all, first of all, architect need to have exposure. Actually, most of the time, like the clients are closer to us and we know our clients, we know the budgets, we know everything and all, because we spend too much of time, hours kind of, with the client. So client has certain kind of vision, so that we understand that and he has a budget. Then, finally, you need to have exposure. Architects, they don't have exposure sometimes. Sometimes they say, whatever the money is left, we put it into lighting. Lighting comes later, the last part, where you have little money, and you put it into that way. But that doesn't work. That should not work.

The architect, when they design from the initial stage, they have to conceptualize, they have to see how the building is going to look. You see, if you look at the hours, the day times and the night time sunset 5, 3030 in the morning we have plenty of hours. The building in the dark, the building in the dark. So that is a major point when you can visualize the building from interior and outside right. Yes, yes, so that has to be appreciated. Earlier, the building, after the dark, the building was dead. But nowadays it's not the building comes.

Once you come back, you see the glamorous part of the building. Right, yeah, yeah. So glamour comes in the evening, right yeah, yeah. So you need to have a good kind of lighting system to exploit the evening. Basically, right, so we need to have a kind of lighting consultants and we give our feedback to lighting consultants. You should, you should and vice versa. We are learning a lot. It is a learning for me. Sometimes I say, okay, we need to put that much of light, that many kind of lights and all, and no, don't do that, there's so many limitations.

And all, right, it is a collaborative yeah, we are collaborative but definitely need a more kind of an architect to visiting these kind of places and all. I hardly see any architects visiting this lighting.

No, that's why I'm very happy to see you, because that also shows us that you have an interest in lighting. You understand lighting and the importance of what it brings to the buildings you design.

Yeah because once I know the kind of things which are available right now, I can tell my lighting consultant yes, I want like this, so can we do this? And all you won't believe. Yesterday we were having a dinner somewhere right and he was facing the restaurant. I was facing the kind of main road, so I saw the multi-story building here and there's a night view. The building is coming next to Burj Khalifa. So I told him Harmeet, look back, look at this building. If I do this, is it possible? He said no, it is not possible at all. The kind of lighting you see, it is not practical. It is not practical. So the more time we spend together lighting consulting and architects, it's good for the community.

Good for the client, good for everything. So it is a kind of exposure.

So this year's theme is enlightened futures. Both of you can respond to this question. So these enlightened futures in which we touch upon social issues, ethical issues like darkness, circular economy, integration of smart elements into lighting You've been walking around a bit. Tell me a bit what you feel is important. How does that help us to get better lighting into buildings?

Well, these concerns have been for a while there and all of us need to address it sooner or later, and that's what it's good that we have started at least talking about it now. If you start from the deep down, that level, you see plastics and as you grow into the deeper middle of the mature suppliers and manufacturers I don't know I should say this or not, but what is happening is there is a maturity scene and I don't want to become country-wise or anything, so what is happening is the sensibility.

It's there yet.

Yeah, we know all this. Only the thing is the economics and the commercials is moving us dance in a very different way.

There is a use for everything. Yes, you know, we have five-star hotels, we have one-star hotels and all have different applications, different sort of lighting. So in that respect, we also have five-star lighting brands, we have one-star lighting brands. It makes sense.

But at the same time, martin, what I think is I do a lot of product design as well, and I've worked with biggest names where our products are, as of now, designed and sold in market, which some of us are using as well.

It's about the strategy of using the right materials. When you want to go to circular, we're talking about circular, Of course it's very important materials when you want to go to circular, we're talking about circular. Of course it's very important. But at the same time, if the materials are wrong and not circulable, it's going wrong and it's not about first star, one star, three star, four star.

No, no, I'm just saying that as a sort of metaphor. Yes, agreed agreed.

The quality would definitely. There is a crispness or a, I would say, luminar. I would like to keep the efficiency aside, but at the same time, if technically a diffused light may not be very, very popular among lighting designers, but at the same time it has an application. What you said, exactly, that's it. But making it out of a right material and the right. Quality is a responsibility which we need to have, be it in a one-star or cheapest one or the most expensive one, because the cheap one is really very expensive for the environment.

You know what I often say as a line designer One of my prime tasks is education. I need to educate my client, and I'm sure you, as an architect, do the same thing. Yeah, education is the right thing.

I think you highlighted that Education makes a lot of difference. You know that education is like in India at least right when I tell my client, like I need a lighting consultant, why do you need to have a lighting consultant? Just buy lights and hire a vendor and he will put lights on. No, I need a lighting consultant, he will create an ambience, the ambience I know what kind of ambience I am looking for. No, sir, I need a lighting consultant who will suggest kind of a right kind of a product, right kind of an ambience, right kind of a kind of a fitting fixtures and all. So we need a consultant. You know, finally, you know what happens.

The thing which I am facing is like my lighting consultant they advise a good kind of light, finally, the budget comes in, all. So budget is huge, which is fine. But same kind of product you get at a lesser price, and all right. So in this market which I am not confident about, the price which they are quoting into it, the price which you see in the market in the catalog and the price which I see in the market in the catalog and the price which I see in this exhibition is major difference, yes, and where I am not very confident. This is like how do you do this? This is like what? It is basically right. The actual price and the market price is totally different. And the lighting, they are very good, and the exposure, all these kind of products, the kind of materials we should know, so what I say, the client should have certain kind of education.

You should call a couple of good developers, like anywhere in the world, you call some developers, some architects, so that they get a kind of a good exposure and the education. And once they get educated, yes, a good exposure and the education. And once they get educated, yes, they're free to do any kind of product up to them. You use for one star, three star, four star, five star, depending on budget.

But it should be exposed and all right see sometimes you need to also justify the client why you need to have a premium brand. Very often is not because of the quality of the product, but also the service that the product and the brand gives.

Now I want to make a little bridge from we talked about education, educated climate. You were here interviewed on the virtual lighting design community stage and one of our key elements of our community is lighting. Education is sharing of knowledge, right? So you didn't know about VLDC but we explained a little bit to you. I would love to hear your understanding and appreciation of what the Virtual Lighting Jack community can do for our lighting community in general.

Makes a major, major difference. This is the kind of first time I heard where this is going to be a kind of a landmark, kind of a decision and it will expose and give us a good education for a client, for an architect, any kind of personal setting, whoever is not attending today but is virtually connected. Virtually connected.

Right so that makes a lot of sense. It is one of the best kind of examples to do that and it should be appreciated and should be promoted more and more. I can share these kind of ideas with my clients, my architects, my friends in Delhi, so this is a kind of good platform Should be promoted well in our week.

I think it's a lovely economical way of reaching out to education. Education is not cheap. We all know that. We all have seen colleges and I think it brings in a lot of knowledge and accessible to many, many, many people who want to learn, and sometimes we are making those mistakes just because we don't know, and that's where it's you know. At the same time, I know the world works around the economics, but this kind of an initiative helps bridge that gap, because I remember I wanted to do lighting design in 2002. I couldn't afford it and I decided not to do so because it was too expensive for me at that time and I went into work with Philips, work with many other. I didn't have this kind of thing. I've learned on job. I'm an illiterate lighting designer.

I say always which is, which is, which is there. So at the same time, this kind of forums bring in a lot more talent into a learning curve and avoiding those initial errors.

We also want to spread the word outside the lighting community.

That's why I'm so happy that you are here as an architect, because we need also architects to be part of this. You have to work with lighting electrical engineers, you name it.

So in that respect, that was the idea of interviewing the two of you together the architect and.

So thank you very much for this interview. Thank you very much.

Thank you so much and all the best.

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